lupestripe&#39;s lair

I suspect you are probably right - I imagine there are two sides to the situation - the elite who are up there and those who desperately want to be.

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I've used that term before. It exists as a perception sometimes, I doubt it actually exists intentionally (ie, people who genuinely consider themselves in some way better or a more qualified fur than others - but who knows, maybe it does).

I've noticed having a [good] fursuit seems to open doors to a world somewhat shut off to suitless-furs. Not necessarily an inherently "bad" thing, but certainly something that can be perceived as elitism.

Sometimes folk who just happen to be everywhere - at all the meets, on all the IRC channels, have a thousand fanboys praising their every last inane one-liner LJ post - could also be perceived an elite (although that sort of thing's a fine line between elitism and general cock).

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I can't disagree with any of that, that's true.

Fanboys are always going to exist and I guess this is where the perception of the elite comes from. I guess it's whatever floats your boat though as some of the revered furs, I cannot see why people revere them so much. Yet others, who do other things, I have more appreciation for. However, I wonder if there is an aspect of institutional elitism going on as the same names do seem to crop up at all Furry Cons etc.

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It's subjective but using furry cons as an example, one can normally tell the difference between people who genuinely want to perform a service to "the fandom", and people who want the kudos for doing so.

The former individuals lurk in the shadows. Things just happen. You never know who made events work out - or only pick up bits on the grapevine.

The latter persistently make a song and dance about what they are doing for or at a particular function.

(Of course this is just human nature - everything that happens in "the fandom" is ordinary human nature and no different to any other group of people, which is why I always wince a little when I find myself referencing "the fandom". We're no different to any other bunch of people and we shouldn't really reference ourselves as if to infer we're anything otherwise).

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ember-komodog.livejournal.com

bit of both really; you get those who ARE elitst, and those who are accused of elitism by those who are jealous of popularity.

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And then you get those who people perceive to be elite but actually, those people don't feel that way and wish that people wouldn't make so much of a fuss of them. I guess every situation and every individual is different.

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shep-shepherd.livejournal.com

I think that the 'furry elite' is by and large something made up by the jealous...

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Potentially true although sometimes I can't help but feel that the same names cropping up over and over is preventing other people from shining at the same time. Also, some people get scared of the fanboy-ism and deliberately tone down their own exposure because of it. In a way, that's sad because there are so many good, under-stated artists and suiters out there and I guess this is what concerns me most about this whole topic.

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There seem to be more suiters than ever. I am still kind of terrified to approach people in suit (see earlier reply). Not having a suit myself (so not part of that, well, I won't say elite but could I say clique?) I'm scared to be perceived as a suiter-hugging fanboi, but more scared to tread on anyones personal space or break their "rules". I probably don't need to feel that way, but bad experiences / observations make it so.

It seems that everyones an artist these days too. LJ Meme's for con-goers asking if you do art trades, fur-fucking-affinity (for the life of me, I don't know why it's so popular) seems designed to share art between artists, but doesn't consider you may simply be a consumer of art with nothing oh any worth to put back. I don't want my FA account to have a gallery, artist info, etc. I feel like I just shouldn't be there.

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r-a-blackpaws.livejournal.com

I think it's a mix of ego (by those who feel they ARE the elite) and jealousy (from those who want to BE the elite).

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Summed up perfectly methinks.

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enteirah

If you heard it mentioned at EF (and I'm amazed if that's the first time you've heard it XD), did you ask what *they* meant by it? Would have been interesting to know before launching into the questions. =;)

Generally I've always treat The Furry Elite to be a more perceptual grouping term applied to individual people matching certain characteristics, without being a proper fixed entity or group. Not necessarily someone who is good at a certain thing, but rather someone who thinks and acts as though they are above others because they *believe* themselves to be good at something (and more often than not such people actually aren't =:P).

The jealousy part I've always found tends to come more as a perception thing from the individual. Furries who tend to act complete cocks but have a large groups of fanbois following invariably close their eyes to their own faults (why agree the sky is blue, when 10 other people will agree with your assertion that it's pink?), thus put any criticism down to jealousy as it avoids the need to do much needed self-analysis.

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I launch into questions because I have an idea about what "The Furry Elite" means but I would like to find out the views of others on it too. I am naturally interested in and inquisitive over other people's viewpoints and I like to instill debate, it's something that I really enjoyed at university. When it comes to this topic, I have an idea what they meant but I have never been good at forming opinions because I tend to see both sides of the coin. This is why I was intrigued to see what others would make of it.

As everyone is individual I guess they treat the concept of an "Elite" in different ways. Some revel in the fact that they are highly appreciated and are arrogant because of it yet others spurn the attention because they do not believe to be more capable or better at something than others. Then you have the fanboys who do exasperate the situation more. What interests me is that the same names often crop up in furry cons etc and I am intrigued as to why this is. This isn't fanboyism, this goes further.

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londonwolf.livejournal.com

There are those who see themselves as elite, and those who are perceived to be elite.

I truly hope I fall into neither category.

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avalanche-wolf.livejournal.com

I know I'm neither, I'm the third type.

I call myself elite just for the pisstake lulz it generates LOL

Just like 'Brumcon - The yearly con for elitist bastards twice a year'.

Nope, Brumcon is a pisstake name for a large house party, thats all it is hehe.

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Pisstaking is definitely one way to get round it - I like your style :)

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I'm like you really, I just bumble along in my own merry way and if people like me then great and if not then I'm not too concerned. To be honest, I'd rather people liked me for who I was rather than because I was particularly good at one particular thing.

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I don't think it exists in any "official" way, but there certainly are some who think themselves better than others and who scoff at others' efforts.

I noticed this during one of the panels with the guests at EF14, for example. There was a discussion about writing, and someone - from the audience, I think, not one of the guests - remarked that while YiffStar had a hundred thousand stories, 99999 of them were crap, and the remaining one was stolen. There was some more talk along those lines, too - about how there were many people on FA as well who thought they were writers but - in the opinion of whoever said that - weren't actually.

If that's not elitism, I don't know what is.

But it's something that generally seems to be limited to a minority of folks.

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alexf0x.livejournal.com

I hate to say it but yiffstar is well known for being full of crap, but that's what you get for having a stite dedicated to "furry errotic fiction" with no screening or vetting. In short a truck of bad porn.

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There is a difference between saying "much of it is crap" and "all of it is crap". Not that I'm even necessarily going to agree with the former, what with having read hardly anything on YiffStar (not to mention "crap" being in the eye/mind of the beholder, anyway), but I think it's an important difference, and disparaging an entire site, everyone who uses it and everything they produce *is* arrogant and elitist.

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I think it's like anything else - some authors you will like to read and others you don't. I have never liked Tolkein or Charles Dickens yet I would never say they were crap, just not to my particular tastes.

I haven't read much of YiffStar but anything that is too porn orientated simply isn't my thing. However, I am sure there are good writers on there, I can just imagine it may be a case of filtering through the crap.

However, I would never disparage anyone who has gone out there and given it ago. If you write (or draw, or perform etc) you are putting yourself on the line to a point as you are naturally going to be judged. Fair play to all those who go out there and do it - that's the thing I respect above anything else.

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Aye. Noone says you have to like everything (or anything, even), but there's a huge difference between saying "I don't like this writer's stuff" and "this writer is crap", or in fact "this person isn't even a writer to begin with".

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I completely agree - and indeed you might like some stuff from a certain writer but not other stuff. I tend to take each piece of work on its own merits, if I can. But I would still always encourage to get involved, particularly if they have their hearts set on it.

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Aye, same for me.

Of course, there is such a thing as technical merit, and some people really do not exactly rank very high in that regard, but that's not a reason to disparage them, either. (And it's not like anyone was born with the ability to write brilliant prose, anyway...)

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toumal.livejournal.com

A furry elite?

:P

Joking aside, r_a_blackpaws probably said it best, there's little to add.

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tryst-fel-cath.livejournal.com

!

I used to play this on my BBC-B. Infact, I still have the boxed game complete with maps somewhere. I think that's going to be the next thing to bring over from Kent!

More on topic, it is a bit of both. There are furs out there who choose to only interact with those they think are worthy of their presence - true elitists - and there are plenty of others who use the term out of jealousy.

Me? I couldn't give a rat's either way. Nothing that happens more than 2 miles from the beach is of any great conscequence. Unless it's a tidal wave.

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They really don't make computer games like that any more? To be honest, computer game died for me in 1996 - everything before then is largely superior to the modern day stuff. But then I am probably in a minority with that one.

You are right in your assessment, I feel. I know a few fanboys who are desperately clamouring to be accepted and then I know a few of the elites who look down on you (and have looked down on me in the past) because of the fursuit I have, for who I am etc etc.

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Lols :)

I agree, he put it rather expertly and succinctly. I guess it's all down to the individuals involved at the end of the day - either on the subject or the perceiver.

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godzuki.livejournal.com

Your not cleared for that.

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Not cleared for what? :P

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godzuki.livejournal.com

The furluminated masters of the furry elite do not permit me to say.

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Not even if I do a wiggly pawshake?

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godzuki.livejournal.com

In truth, like any social group, you are going to get people who associate together, and who are elitist/exclusive or just wont give you the time of day. Every social group does it, and its normal, but perhaps a little against the more traditional way furries think they should treat each other.

I dont like it either, but i think im just exhibiting geek social fallacy 3, 4 or 5...hmm not sure..

http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

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That seems an interesting article, thanks for highlighting it to me. I'll read it more in-depth when I get back from Leeds :D

I agree with you about it being the case in most social situations. It's what I have experienced too.

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tungro.livejournal.com

The way I see it is there are those people that are elitist because although they may have reasons for being "popular" (say they're excellent artists, storywriters, fursuit performers etc), that particular group is seen as closed. I think for a group to be elitist they have to turn their backs to the "lesser beings". They're exclusive, rather than inclusive.

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I see what you say but there are a few furs out there who I have come across who don't speak to you, or if they do, it's only briefly before they catch the attention of someone in their own crowd and they bound off to speak to them. Whether that's elitist or being in different friendship groups is a moot point but it has certainly happened to me in the past.

I don't think that these people necessarily completely turn their backs on the "lesser beings" but there is, amongst a few, a mentality of arrogance that relates to the fact that they *know* they are good. Personally, I have no problem with people being good at something and I respect them for it but when it seeps into arrogance and being a twat, then there comes a point where any feelings of balance are wiped out.

Everyone has something to contribute to the Fandom, just like everyone has something to contribute in life itself. I don't see any point in elitism and I believe everyone should get a chance to shine.

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xaviervonrottie.livejournal.com

I know of a few I call part of this group. I really hate to see it also! I never shun anyone. I tell everyone that wants to talk to me or hug me in my suit or what ever. Come on up and dont be shy. Now I don't remember everyone often but I can not help that. ;)

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I completely agree. There are a few I know too and it really rankles with me. I have heard cases of people being dismissive with aspiring young writers, artists or suiters and this really pisses me off too. Art is all about confidence and I think it is important to encourage people to be and to do what they want to do. This is also why I think that people should have the opportunities to do that and to be encouraged to do it but I fear that hearing the same names over and over, negates some of that.

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I tell everyone that wants to talk to me or hug me in my suit or what ever. Come on up and dont be shy

You just reminded me of a bad experience at my first FC (2006). I was sitting out by the pool, fiddling with my camera, when somebody shouts in pidgin-English from a group of people nearby (with the odd fursuit) "NO PICTURES! NO CAMERA!"

I wasn't even shooting anything. Put a bit of a downer on the rest of the con, and my camera didn't come out much again for fear of more uppity suiters. THAT'S an example of elitism - attend a convention as busy and dense as FC and start yelling at strangers "NO PICTURES!" who weren't even shooting any. Sheesh. (Fortunately in 2008, I didn't encounter that sort of up-ones-own-arse attitude from anyone, in or out of suit.)

That, and reading before now on the odd individuals LJ about "rules" concerning their fursuit, which essentially boil down to don't come near me if I don't know you, still make me afraid to approach anyone in suit. I fully respect peoples personal space and wishes, but posting strict rules about conduct when in suit is, to me, the highest form of elitism. Why go to a massive furry convention in suit, in public if you're THAT angsty about being touched or admired? I really can't understand that one.

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xaviervonrottie.livejournal.com

Oh I have seen it all to much my self also. I really hate to see fursuiters with bad attitudes. That's one thing I hope no one ever thinks I have. Now I do a lot of other things in suit that a few don't like but that's all for fun! LOL I never understand people who spend a bunch of money on a fursuit, wear it to a con, then say don't touch me!!! I'm never that way! Hell I love to see others having a good time with me around. And if anyone want to take a photo with me or hug me I'm like hell yea. I should be at FC my self this year. So if you see me in Apollo or Xavier please come up! You will see were not all rude and cold.

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