A Sad, Sad Day

[lupestripe]

The BNP gain two seats (largely thanks to the media scaremongering actually giving them publicity and thus being counter-productive) whilst UKIP have made significant gains too.

In fact, it has been a great day for Eurosceptics and parties on the far right throughout Europe. This tells me something - either people are widely opposed to the EU or the EU needs a massive overhaul in the way it is governed and administered. From my own point of view, I sincerely hope it's the latter rather than the former (I think if managed correctly, the EU can be a fantastic thing) but sadly, I fear it's not.

To me, the results of this election are merely one more reason to leave the country as I am becoming increasingly disenfranchised with where this country is heading (although, I accept, the local elections couldn't have really gone better really from my own standpoint).

Still, that's the delight of democracy I suppose. I just wish that the media had delivered all of the facts as I certainly did not see balanced reporting or indeed any real discussion or debate on the options that each political party presented forth. People were just too obsessed with the far right. And look at what we got.

In fact, the only articles I read in the Press were about the dangers of the far right - and all that did was give them publicity. Indeed, the BNP's policies were the only ones I didn't have to search for when I was trying to make my mind up on who to vote. In some ways, I wonder whether the rise of the far right is what the media actually wants - indeed the timing of the expenses scandal was certainly interesting regarding these elections.

P.S. I have always believed that every election is important and should not just be used as a "protest vote". I have always believed that not voting for who you truly believe in is counterproductive and damaging to democracy.

Comments

[londonwolf.livejournal.com]

I would like to see a racheting back of the EU to an economic trading bloc to be honest rather than the way it's heading which appears to be a political superstate.

The BNP vote is disappointing but not surprising. If you look at the actual vote figures they barely gained at all on last year - they only got the seats because so many people stayed away from the ballot boxes this year and seats are based on percentages.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I think the freedom of movement, trade and goods from each EU state is fantastic and that greater cooperation between all EU members should be encouraged. I think that the European Parliament needs dramatic overhaul so that it is more democratic and that it serves its people better.

However, I also believe that each EU state should be free to make its own laws and that only on certain, specific, Europe-wide issues, that the European parliament should take priority.

One of the major reasons why I could not find a party to vote for in these elections was because I am quite pro-EU and in some respects a federalist. I think this means I am in a minority of one in the UK but there you go.

Yep, people have stayed away because they are disllusioned with the political process. Labour are to blame for this, and to a lesser extent the Tories and the Lib Dems. What we need is more political engagement but the Press needs to be far more responsible and promote the good that governments do as well as the bad. They also need to be more impartial but fat chance that is going to happen.

[londonwolf.livejournal.com]

You pretty much think the same way I do on Europe. The EU Parliament shouldn't be able to trump laws set in member nations - national soveriegnty shouldn't be eroded.

The press is heavily politicised - perhaps moreso now then ever before, especially after the castration of the BBC in the wake of the Hutton Enquiry. I don't think there's an unbiased voice out there now.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

This is one of the reasons why I would fight to hold on to the BBC. Yes, it was castrated but it is still the only vaguely unbiased source out there.

I have never been a big fan of the national soveriegnty argument as I think certain laws could (and possibly should) be deferred to Europe because of the nature of the trading bloc and how I think cooperation will benefit us all. However, I think far too many laws are now decided in Brussels, one that don't really affect the EU.

[balto-mike.livejournal.com]

I would certainly like to think that the BBC will stand by its Royal Charter and continue to give independent, unbiased reporting not just abroad but at home too.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I bloody hope so - I am a massive defender of the BBC simply because it is the only (largely) impartial news service in the UK, if not the world.

[shep-shepherd.livejournal.com]

It's the only news service that matters to me!

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

If that goes then it really will be a sad day for Britain - for too long the Press has been run by a handful of oligarchs who have far too much sway on the political outlook of Britain. This scares me and the BBC, by its very nature, can't do that, which is why it needs preserving.

[shep-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Absolutely.

[doco.livejournal.com]

the only (largely) English-language impartial news service in the UK, if not the world.

Emphasis added. Even the BBC gets it wrong pretty often...

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I am sure there are others but they are nowhere near as prolific. What do you suggest as being a good news source?

[startide.livejournal.com]

And its low bandwidth version loads faster on my phone than any other news site ^^

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

Lols :)

[blueberrybadger.livejournal.com]

"The EU Parliament shouldn't be able to trump laws set in member nations"

And that is why the Conservatives and UKIP won.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

There should be better negotiation between member states and the EU in my view. Indeed, the whole system needs overhauling on who makes laws, when and why.

[blueberrybadger.livejournal.com]

Fact is we have pretty much no say what-so-ever. Heck they even tried to force a constitution on us. It may all very well pretty and rosey, may have good stuff in it ... but the point is the people in the UK get bugger all chance to vote and have a say with what's going on, we will damn well take our opportunity to tell em to piss off whenever it comes around.

Effectively we vote a dictator in every 5 years in this country, and the last one wasn't even elected! I hate it when all this law crap is spouted at me over your voting for the party blah blah blah, in my mind it is obvious you vote for a PM, just as it is obvious you are voting McCain or Obama. We get one say every 5 years then its tough titties. Don't like a law? bugger all you can do about it. Want to replace an MP? Bugger all you can do about it. Makes me sick. They get in, sit in their little castle in Whitehall and make all the decisions for us. You may well believe the system needs overhauling, better negotiation, but what can you actually do about it? Nothing. The politicians lie in their manifesto's (if they didn't we wouldn't have the problem of protest voting) so it's a case of getting rid of whoever the heck is running things now.

There was a famous book written 'How England Works' (By Marr or Clarkson, can't remember which). It says how the UK is supposed to work, then how it *actually* works. Fascinating read.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I think referenda are a bad idea because the press has too much sway and the public are never presented with the facts in an unbiased way free from political rhetoric. The fact that oligarchs control the media and promote party lines according to their whims means that I think politicans should have a significant amount of control. The other thing is that the vast majority of people would have no idea on the nuances of the European Constitution and how it would affect them - I have always believe we elect politicans to serve us on such matters. The problem is that, at present, the politicans are serving themselves.

I don't think you should vote on personality, but on policy. It should be irrelevant how well someone orates when it is the substance that should matter. When Brown took over the Labour Party and became PM then there should have been a new election but we all knew that was going to happen when Labour were voted in in 2005.

What irks me most is that the Government lied on Iraq and on tuition fears and little was done beyond a pointless protest in London yet when someone claims too much on a duck pond, the public are up in arms. There should be greater transparency in Government and less lying and sleaze but that's not going to happen as it's not in politicians' interests. The sad fact is that this has happened since the dawn of democracy in the UK (Robert Walpole was notorious) and only now is it being exposed due to greater media investigation.

How England Works is something I will try and read some time as it sounds interesting. I agree that in the UK, like in the EU, we need wholescale political reform but when the politicians are happy in the current situation because it is to their benefit, how likely is that going to happen?

[salith.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately I could not agree with any party on these issues so in the end there was no party I could have realistically cast my vote for and felt like I had done my 'duty'

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

There was no one who represented me either although some more than others. But on two important issues, not one party concorded with my viewpoint so I was stuck really.

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

Was ashamed to learn that Yorkshire elected one of the two fascists. But as I said in an earlier post of yours, this is not entirely unexpected. We have to learn to emotionally deal with this, and hope that this has shaken the main parties awake to the stage where they will start addressing working class fears and pain, rather than just dismissing it. With that in mind, this could be a blessing in disguise.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

This has been coming for 15 years mate, the mainstream political parties haven't woken up, nor will they. That's what scares me. In a way, we need a Walpole or someone to try and unite the country. I think it may get a lot worse before it gets better.

[balto-mike.livejournal.com]

I personally think we should be a hell of lot more alarmed if they were elected MPs than MEPs. However I understand that the signal of electing these two candiates might try to make the BNP seem more mainstream, but I still believe that the majority of people do not want them to become mainstream.

The EU personally, I think its 'superstate' powers should be cut down, I appericate that it has some (but not many) good laws for the whole continent and that its free trade has benefited our economies well. However there is little coverage here and often the anti-EU message gets by a lot stronger. Certainly perhaps a reform of the Parliamentary system might do it some favours. What's going on with Lisbon Treaty anyway atm?

Finally, there are other fringe/extreme parties with a tiny number of MEPs at Brussels, so its not just a problem faced by the UK.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

In a way, the BNP being elected is one of the major drawbacks of PR but I guess it is a more democratic system. Of course, I'd be more worried if it was in the UK as there is a neo-right element of the European parliament as it is.

There are far too many anti-EU messages in this country and little redress from the other side. At the moment, the pros and cons of being in the EU are largely equal but if reformed, the EU could be a truly great thing. This bias in the media is the main reason why I am opposed to any referenda as it will simply be a result of who can shout the loudest.

I think EU law and UK law could be symbiotic and could work together, with neither one trumping the other. If that reform happens, the national sovereignty argument will go.

[emejn.livejournal.com]

The BNP's gain is a triumph of democracy - there's nothing illegitimate about those votes, or the MEPs they elected. It's a profoundly good thing that more extreme views have the chance to be represented when not catered to by more mainstream parties. Not all BNP policies are racist, colourist, etc., and not all BNP votes are driven by racism, colourism, etc.

As for the EU - it's executive and legislature seems to be fundamentally corrupt (any company whose auditer had refused to sign off its accounts for more than a decade wouldn't still be around). The tally of votes for Conservatives and UKIP confirms that Britain wants a more streamlined, less invasive EU, a free-trade and free-access area with benefits, not a federation. I hope that the more leftist parties stop ignoring this.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying the BNP's votes were illegitimate but your use of the word "triumph" is hardly the adjective I would use. Yes, in any true democracy, the BNP has a right to exist (I would fight to defend that) and I also accept that a lot of their votes come from disenfrachised people but the reality is that they are thugs in suits who promulgate a racist and homophobic agenda, and one based on fear - these are their core policies.

You are right that everyone's view should be considered - that's the delights of democracy - but I still think it is sad that nearly a million people share a view that is aligned to that of the BNP.

Yep, as I said, I am quite clearly in a minority in this country regarding the EU. That's fine. I think the EU needs significant overhaul regarding how it operates but if that happens, I think it could be very beneficial to Britain and Europeans as a whole. And as for corruption, you don't really need to look much beyond our own Parliament for evidence of that.

[emejn.livejournal.com]

It's certainly saddening that for ~1mm people, there is no party that is more closely aligned to their views than the BNP, but hopefully it will trigger policy adjustments in the rest of the political spectrum to pull back some of that ground.

As for the corruption - let's be frank, the MP's expenses scandal is pretty insignificant on the grand scale of institutional corruption. It's beer money compared with what goes on elsewhere. It's nothing compared to arms and oil related backhanders in the middle east. It's nothing compared to Silvio Berlusconi passing a law in Italy to grant himself immunity to prosecution. It's nothing compared to the amount of fraud going on in the EU, especially in agriculture and MEP expenses. Contrast what has happened here to how the EU treated whistleblowers such as Marta Anderson. Yes, it's bad, and needs fixing right away, but it's important to keep a sense of perspective.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

You'd hope it would do that but the BNP have been making significant gains over the last 15 years and every time, the Press has said this is "a wake-up call for the Government". Sad thing is that the Government have never seemed to have woken up.

Of course MPs' expenses are small fry and there is significant corruption elsewhere too but it is still a tip of a worrying iceberg. As you say, perspective is important, which is why I want to see a wholesale change in both UK and EU transparency regarding these issues. If that can happen, then I think the EU can be a good thing. The problem is politicians have started serving themselves rather than the electorate and when that happens, it's a very slippery slope.

[mr-cullen.livejournal.com]

Oh no it's the end times! the BNP got two fucking seats!

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

It is a worrying development, particularly as now the BNP has an influence in policy making. Yes, at the moment it is a tiny bit of influence but I fear that it could get worse. The sad thing is that nearly one million people agreed with their view - that's a sizeable minority.

[puddy-tat-uk.livejournal.com]

hmm.

yes, not all the BNP policies are racist - they have a pretty strong showing in anti-gay and anti-disabled people policies too. And their carefully constructed user-friendly manifestos are the tip of a rather unpleasant iceberg - http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/ has more about what they say when they think the mainstream media aren't taking notice.

I'm not convinced this is really a new thing - the National Front (of which many current BNP members were involved in) got a similar sort of percentage vote in some elections in the mid 70s, and (had there been euro elections on the same basis) would probably have got a few seats then, and the British Union of Fascists picked up a few council seats in the 30s.

I really can't make my mind up whether the publicity being given to the BNP is helpful - from some of the coverage, you would think they had won an election rather than got two MEPs and a few councillors who will do not much more than make a nuisance of themselves. Part of me thinks that publicity might encourage people to come together and make a stand against the fascists (as happened in the 30s and the 70s.) Part of me thinks that the excessive publicity they are getting may give them a spurious air of legitimacy, but on the other paw, I don't think that trying to suppress them will help either - it will add to their claimed martyr status.

I'm not quite sure - overall - what these elections prove. New Labour has had the kick up the tail that it deserves, but it's hardly the great victory for the tories that their friends in the press are trying to claim - more or less the same share of the vote as 5 years ago - on an even lower turnout?

Meh.

=( '.' )=

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I think the continued coverage of the BNP in most newspapers over the last four weeks has given them more support than less. I know that the BNP was the only party whose specific parties I knew without research because it was all over the media.

I think the threat of the BNP will decrease - people are often polarised in times of economic crises but I fear that the mainstream parties - who have seen the rise of fascism in the last ten years (and have been largely responsible for it) - have failed to "wake up" despite being given numerous "wake up calls". That worries me.

The fact is though that a large proportion of the BNP vote was a protest vote and the hope is that the mainstream parties do act. As you say, we could head back to the 30s and 70s and fight fascism. At the moment, fascism is far from being suppressed - it's getting a lot of mainstream publicity. As the adage says - there is no such thing as bad publicity.

The elections prove nothing largely because of the events surrounding them. Had the MPs expenses happened after this election, Labour's slump wouldn't have been as dramatic and the BNP vote would have dropped. I think circumstance has orchestrated this for the BNP and the media have been responsible for that, which is something I find interesting.

[metamorphosys.livejournal.com]

To be honest voting has lost all appeal to me. Take care.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I think it is important to vote but only if you believe in that political outlook. If not, you should spoil your paper or not vote.