The Nature Of Submissives

[lupestripe]

Are submissives generally selfless creatures who wish to make others happy, or do they have self-esteem issues that are only alleviated by the opportunity to serve and make their masters happy? I really don't know my own take on it.

(And yep I am being way to psychoanalytical and I know you can't generalise completely - just interested in the psychological mechanisms)

Comments

[graywolf769.livejournal.com]

I tend to be the selfless kind of person that just wants to make others happy. That sounds more nice. :)

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I am sure that's a large part of it and submissives are probably more selfless and desperate in making their partners happy, sometimes to the point of obsessiveness. I am sure that the happiness of their partners is what drives most submissives but I wonder whether that comes about because, perhaps, they don't believe they deserve to have a partner and they over-compensate?

[simbab.livejournal.com]

Are submissives generally selfless creatures who wish to make others happy, or do they have self-esteem issues that are only alleviated by the opportunity to serve and make their masters happy?

I'm going to give you the answer that boomeroo used to give me whenever I'd ask him an either/or question, which always used to throw me off—"Yes."

Of course, now I that little smart aleck trick myself. XD

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

Lols that's not an answer but I can see what you are getting at :)

[wruf.livejournal.com]

I'd like to think I'm in the former group but who knows. I try not to psychoanalyse myself too much.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

Psychoanalysis has always been my weak point and in some respects my downfall. I worry too much and I think too much - I just can't accept or let things be. I think this is the main reason why I am the way I am. It generates positive and negative character traits but it does make it impossible to relax due to my being fraught with worry.

[kiwihunter8.livejournal.com]

Oops, I realise in my comment I just said what you already said - you can't generalise!

IN which case, I say: from the submissives I've talked to (and in my own experiences with those feelings) I'd say it's about happiness gained from pleasing someone else.

They may or not may not have self esteem issues. But I think sometimes it's a control issue. When oftentimes we don't have the opportunity to do something simple to make someone happy it's fun to 'do a good job' on whatever it is the dominant wants.

It's a lot more satisfying than going to work and being just a cog in a machine where you don't get to oftentimes see the immediate results of what you've worked for.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I wrote it in response to your post so it's not your fault for missing it lols.

I completely agree with everything you say - I certainly think that's an element. I enjoy making Master happy and that is what I live to do - making him happy, makes me happy. In some respects, it's a more transparent form of how a relationship should be anyway.

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

A bit of both.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

You are probably right - it's a multi-faceted and complex issue. Christ knows why I pick the difficult ones to contemplate.

[balto-mike.livejournal.com]

I'd say its pretty selfless for me, as that is a major aspect of my personality. However I feel I just don't have the mindset to dominate too.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I have tried domination but I can't do it - can't get into the mindset. Part of it is because I am in control in my professional life and don't want to extend that into my personal life. However, another part of it is a desire to please and get the instant reward of being told I am doing a good job. Having cripplingly low confidence catalyses that, which is one of the reasons why I live to please.

[little-wolf1985.livejournal.com]

Personally, I enjoy pleasing my partner and making them happy. That is where I get my enjoyment, from knowing that they are happy and that I am the cause of that happiness.

[darkone238.livejournal.com]

this

[dark-raven-wolf.livejournal.com]

I'd agree with kiwihunter8

it really does differ from person to person

for some it's a selfish act since they get their sexual pleasure from being punished

others it's just a general wish to make people happy

others it's something similar to a wolf pack..... they just do it without question because it's their alpha and their an omega


me.... I take great personal joy in watching the minds of those I make happy work and swirl.... watching faces and moods...^_^
but then I'm not a sub....

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I agree that it differs from person to person but then we are all united by a similar consciousness and instincts, meaning that the same base emotions are involved. I am interested in trying to work out what they are.

[bucky-firehawk.livejournal.com]

i am submissive when i want and dominate when i need to be. in my case its all just a matter of being in the moment. how i am feeling and what needs are being met

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I am certainly submissive because it allows me to relax as someone else is taking control. I have significant issues relaxing so this aids me greatly. However, my submissiveness also relates to my self-esteem issues.

[rebelsheart]

Honestly, that's probably a person-specific judgement.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I think you're right but I also think there are unifying principles, based on human consciousness and emotion, that are shared. I am trying to strip away the individuality and look at it from a more collective stand point.

[crystamartin.livejournal.com]

For me it's not a self-esteem issue as I can and have been known to switch. Those who have seen me as a Domme are few and far between, mind.

It boils down to two things, with me - the mandatory "I'm happy when I'm pleasing someone else" that's been mentioned a few times already (which makes life awkward when you're with someone who is happy when YOU'RE happy, yay vicious circles >:D), but its also a control issue.

If you think about it, I live on my own, drive my own car, work my own job, etc. I've got universal control over my life, a lot of it. Sometimes that is what makes me crack - there's too much to be done because I have to make every choice and I'm not always prepared to cope with them. By subbing, I give up that control. It's up to Master what I do - all I have to worry about is obeying him. It's a release from the stresses I go through daily, basically.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

It's pretty much why I am a submissive too really. My inability to switch off and relax has been the cause of a significant number of my mental problems and being a sub allows me to not worry about such things. Equally, however, the desire to please and to be told I am pleasing, is a huge confidence boost to my fragile ego.

[lsfiox.livejournal.com]

I'd say it depends entirely on each person as every sub will be different. In my experience subs aren't all selfless but neither are they all selfish, there's different levels, though i guess it raises the question of where do you draw the line between sub to switch to dom/domme?

I like to think of myself as a switch and also like to think i'm pretty selfless, you don't have to be a sub to be content with making other people happy. :P

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

It definitely works both ways - the sub makes the dom happy and the dom makes the sub happy. It's why it works for me because it's both selfless and selfish at the same time. It's like charity fursuiting - you raise money for good causes but also get the ego boost that that is what you are doing.

[lazyhowl.livejournal.com]

Thought over this one with my mind a long time, been dom in mindset but with submissive fantasys. Everyone's unique, I think self esteem only comes into it if you use fantasys to make your self feel better rather than just for fun. I've known selfish subs and dom in years online ie (one's who only talk to get you to rp and then not speak after. It's just a matter of the inderviguial more that what kind of person they are.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

Completely agree - there is a difference between submissiveness for fun and being a lifestyle sub. I am the latter, I wonder if that makes a difference in terms of self-esteem?

[actively-lazy.livejournal.com]

imo, both dom and sub should be out to make the other happy, so its not just the subs just to please their master, but the master should be making sure that the sub enjoys their time as the sub.

If they get this right, then should have no need to be selfish as they can be assured their partner is making sure they're getting the pleasure and comfort they need.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

In its purest form, I completely agree that this is what the nature of submissiveness should be about. Luckily, I have got a Master who does that for me :)

[slinkat.livejournal.com]

I'd echo what crystamartin said - I'm living alone with responsibility for everything...mortgage, bills, food, car, the lot. Then I have another layer of responsibility at work. I think being submissive is a subconscious reaction to all of that. I have to be in control of so much that it just feels natural to let go of it all and be completely at the mercy of someone else, whatever the scenario. I just don't think I could be dom AND have all the usual work and life pressures, I'd go mad.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

I agree with you - a large part of why I am a submissive is because the nature of my life and work. I think statistics show that this is the case for a lot of subs too.

But then, on another level, I do have a psychological need to please. This extends way beyond being a submissive though - it extends to helping friends, supporting others etc.

[yingguoren.livejournal.com]

It depends on what sphere of behavior you're talking about. For example, being submissive in the bedroom is not necessarily always linked to being a pushover at work or in social groups.

Being a submissive person socially I would guess *can* be linked to a cycle of low self-esteem and indecision, although as with these things there're always going to be people who go with the flow because they think it'll make other people happy, and can do so with no damage to their own self worth.

As for how much of the time social subs are bedroom subs, I don't know. Would be interesting to do a literature search of PsycInfo and find out if anyone's studied it :)

Hi, btw. Thought I'd post because it was an interesting questions :p

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

Heya, thanks for posting :)

I think a lot of subs have dominant positions in work. I am a manager for my own company, for example, but I am a sub. I think relinquishing control and being able to relax are two major reasons why people are submissive. However, I also think that what I highlighted above is also relevant. It's a very complex issue though, of course.

[blueberrybadger.livejournal.com]

Dunno, i'm a top

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

Lols, I'm too lazy to be top :P

[metamorphosys.livejournal.com]

I never looked at myself as a submissive although I guess I am as I am selfless and wish to make others happy :) Take care.

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

It's just an interesting dichotomy and one I have been thinking a great deal about of late.

[glennjam.livejournal.com]

I'm like that, but I do it as a dommy, is that strange? ^^

[lupestripe.livejournal.com]

No, I guess not. It's an interesting symbiotic relationship and I think you can be both selfish and selfless at the same time as a dom and a sub. If it's completely empathetic, the emotion maelstrom is bizarre but it does work.

[dark-raven-wolf.livejournal.com]

LMAO.... sorry about that Sir Lupe.... I seem to have freaked out one of your friends......^_^
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